Comments on: Connecting the dots of denial http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/connecting-the-dots-of-denial/ For a thriving New England Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The plot thickens, curdles into hypocritical stew and gets even weirder | CLF Scoop http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/connecting-the-dots-of-denial/#comment-378 The plot thickens, curdles into hypocritical stew and gets even weirder | CLF Scoop Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:35:43 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=1678#comment-378 [...] }); }I have updated my previous post about the fossil fuel billionaire Koch brothers to note that the two brothers who are major funders [...] [...] }); }I have updated my previous post about the fossil fuel billionaire Koch brothers to note that the two brothers who are major funders [...]

]]> By: Seth Kaplan http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/connecting-the-dots-of-denial/#comment-377 Seth Kaplan Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:50:49 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=1678#comment-377 So lets take these "critiques" one by one. 1) The opposition to Cape Wind has now fastened on to the price of power under the submitted contract as the latest reason to oppose the project. In doing so they (as you can see above) hopelessly confuse and mix together the "net benefit" number (estimated at about $25 Million) with the dollar cost of the power. If you read the extensive filings that CLF has made in the case currently underway at the MA DPU regarding the Cape Wind - National Grid contract you can see the basis for our view that the price is appropriate, especially in light of the stability it creates as a buffer against volatile fossil fuel prices. But the fact that this is simply the latest in a long line of arguments that the opponents of Cape Wind have fastened on to suggests strongly they really don't care about price, this is simple the latest stick they have found to hit the project with. 2. The fellow hiding behind the label "NJConservative" has one thing right - that the decision of the Governor of New Jersey to siphon off some of the RGGI proceeds for general governmental purposes was wrong. But that is about it. His assumption that environmentalists are "anti-capitalist" is not only wrong and biased but a little silly when you consider the willingness of environmental groups to embrace market mechanisms as part of a broader solution. As to his denial about climate science there is very little there to analyze. The idea that global warming is "just a theory" and therefore not real is about the least convincing argument imaginable. As the dictionary tells us, a theory is "the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another". Every day, thousands of decisions about medical treatment (both surgery and drug treatment) and civil engineering (the design of roads, bridges and such) are made based upon theories and facts that are much less substantiated than the core climate science that has been evaluated by the National Academies of Science, the American Geophysical Union and so many others. So lets take these “critiques” one by one.

1) The opposition to Cape Wind has now fastened on to the price of power under the submitted contract as the latest reason to oppose the project. In doing so they (as you can see above) hopelessly confuse and mix together the “net benefit” number (estimated at about $25 Million) with the dollar cost of the power. If you read the extensive filings that CLF has made in the case currently underway at the MA DPU regarding the Cape Wind – National Grid contract you can see the basis for our view that the price is appropriate, especially in light of the stability it creates as a buffer against volatile fossil fuel prices. But the fact that this is simply the latest in a long line of arguments that the opponents of Cape Wind have fastened on to suggests strongly they really don’t care about price, this is simple the latest stick they have found to hit the project with.

2. The fellow hiding behind the label “NJConservative” has one thing right – that the decision of the Governor of New Jersey to siphon off some of the RGGI proceeds for general governmental purposes was wrong. But that is about it. His assumption that environmentalists are “anti-capitalist” is not only wrong and biased but a little silly when you consider the willingness of environmental groups to embrace market mechanisms as part of a broader solution.

As to his denial about climate science there is very little there to analyze. The idea that global warming is “just a theory” and therefore not real is about the least convincing argument imaginable. As the dictionary tells us, a theory is “the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another”. Every day, thousands of decisions about medical treatment (both surgery and drug treatment) and civil engineering (the design of roads, bridges and such) are made based upon theories and facts that are much less substantiated than the core climate science that has been evaluated by the National Academies of Science, the American Geophysical Union and so many others.

]]> By: NJConservative http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/connecting-the-dots-of-denial/#comment-376 NJConservative Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:59:58 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=1678#comment-376 Wow, what a lot of hot air. The RGGI cap-and-trade program purposefully set the carbon permits at alow price precisely so the affect would be small. That's the way to get the proverbial foot in the door. Later, the caps will become more stringent and the prices far, far higher. That's why firms like Goldman Sachs are lining up to buy. One would think the greenie anti-capitalist Wall Street bashers would be a tad upset that Cap & Trade is nothing less than a money making scam for investment banks. you'd think they'd also be upset that RGGI funds are being used to close budget gaps in places like New Jersey. Christie used it all so no moola for your green junk there. Next - the idea that cap-and-trade leads to cost savings is an utter joke. the whole point is to make energy costlie. That cost gets passed on to ratepayers. It also causes the price of everyh product and service to rise. Cap-and trade will cost jobs. That's not progress, my friend. that's destruction. That is what the left stands for. Spreading misery everywhere and calling it "sacrifice." Further, RGGI has not been a success at all. If you define reduced carbon emissions as "success" then you have the faltering economy to blame. Less demand has resulted in less production and need to emit. Windmills? They are notoriously unreliable. When they aren't producing energy, what do you think happens? Things like coal must be used to make up for it. Stop-and-go generation, which is what would happen in such an instance, is inefficient, too. As a conservative, I am not opposed to alternative energy. I am opposed to the government shoving it down my throat and using my tax dollars to subsidize things that don't work in the name of the fraud called global warming. Have you ever heard of ClimateGate or did you just stick tyour head in the sand on that one? Did you ever hear of the scientific method when you went to school? Global warming is a THEORY and an unproven one at best. Until the results are verifiable it will remain just a theory. Of course, everything I said only makes sense to people who live in the real world. Whenever you want to join it, feel free. Until then keep saying "Koch" all you want. It won't change the fact that you are dead wrong. Wow, what a lot of hot air. The RGGI cap-and-trade program purposefully set the carbon permits at alow price precisely so the affect would be small. That’s the way to get the proverbial foot in the door. Later, the caps will become more stringent and the prices far, far higher. That’s why firms like Goldman Sachs are lining up to buy. One would think the greenie anti-capitalist Wall Street bashers would be a tad upset that Cap & Trade is nothing less than a money making scam for investment banks. you’d think they’d also be upset that RGGI funds are being used to close budget gaps in places like New Jersey. Christie used it all so no moola for your green junk there.
Next – the idea that cap-and-trade leads to cost savings is an utter joke. the whole point is to make energy costlie. That cost gets passed on to ratepayers. It also causes the price of everyh product and service to rise. Cap-and trade will cost jobs. That’s not progress, my friend. that’s destruction. That is what the left stands for. Spreading misery everywhere and calling it “sacrifice.”
Further, RGGI has not been a success at all. If you define reduced carbon emissions as “success” then you have the faltering economy to blame. Less demand has resulted in less production and need to emit.
Windmills? They are notoriously unreliable. When they aren’t producing energy, what do you think happens? Things like coal must be used to make up for it. Stop-and-go generation, which is what would happen in such an instance, is inefficient, too.
As a conservative, I am not opposed to alternative energy. I am opposed to the government shoving it down my throat and using my tax dollars to subsidize things that don’t work in the name of the fraud called global warming. Have you ever heard of ClimateGate or did you just stick tyour head in the sand on that one? Did you ever hear of the scientific method when you went to school? Global warming is a THEORY and an unproven one at best. Until the results are verifiable it will remain just a theory.
Of course, everything I said only makes sense to people who live in the real world. Whenever you want to join it, feel free. Until then keep saying “Koch” all you want. It won’t change the fact that you are dead wrong.

]]> By: Frank Haggerty http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/connecting-the-dots-of-denial/#comment-375 Frank Haggerty Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:34:51 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=1678#comment-375 For years Cape Wind Associates, which plans to build 130 wind turbines in Nantucket Sound, told us that it could supply renewable energy to the New England market and save ratepayers $25 million a year! Now we learn , ratepayers are going to end up paying $82 million annually more than what they currently pay for the power to be supplied by Cape Wind. That is far cry from paying the $25 million less that Cape Wind originally promised. It’s a case of bait-and-switch ! The country has evidently arrived at a point in its legal culture where no negative consequences seem to exist for making false or misleading claims to sell wind energy—the stuff dreams are made of. But industrial wind is a bunco scheme of enormous consequence. And people who value intellectual honesty should not quietly be fleeced by such mendacity, even from their government For years Cape Wind Associates, which plans to build 130 wind turbines in Nantucket Sound, told us that it could supply renewable energy to the New England market and save ratepayers $25 million a year!

Now we learn , ratepayers are going to end up paying $82 million annually more than what they currently pay for the power to be supplied by Cape Wind. That is far cry from paying the $25 million less that Cape Wind originally promised. It’s a case of bait-and-switch !

The country has evidently arrived at a point in its legal culture where no negative consequences seem to exist for making false or misleading claims to sell wind energy—the stuff dreams are made of. But industrial wind is a bunco scheme of enormous consequence. And people who value intellectual honesty should not quietly be fleeced by such mendacity, even from their government

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