Comments on: Everything You Know Is Wrong: Growing the Economy Without Growing Electricity (and Energy) Demand http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/ For a thriving New England Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Robert D.Bessette http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2366 Robert D.Bessette Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:31:50 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2366 Thanks for the great thought provoking article. Assuming that it is not possible to make or do anything without energy, have you looked at identifying the current level of inefficiency that will be available and accessible to offset the needed energy for growth at a cost that will not slow or impact the economy in the current industry planning and investment cycle? Once we become 100% efficient, what happens to the black line? Further, it takes immediate energy and cash to generate long term energy savings through efficiency. It also takes energy to make, deliver and erect non-carbon based energy generators (wind & solar) with a higher generated energy cost than carbon based energy generation. How does this higher energy cost impact growth? At what point does it stop or reverse growth? Thanks for the great thought provoking article. Assuming that it is not possible to make or do anything without energy, have you looked at identifying the current level of inefficiency that will be available and accessible to offset the needed energy for growth at a cost that will not slow or impact the economy in the current industry planning and investment cycle? Once we become 100% efficient, what happens to the black line? Further, it takes immediate energy and cash to generate long term energy savings through efficiency. It also takes energy to make, deliver and erect non-carbon based energy generators (wind & solar) with a higher generated energy cost than carbon based energy generation. How does this higher energy cost impact growth? At what point does it stop or reverse growth?

]]> By: Coral http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2365 Coral Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:29:17 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2365 Wow that was odd. I just wrote an really long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn't appear. Grrrr... well I'm not writing all that over again. Anyhow, just wanted to say excellent blog! Wow that was odd. I just wrote an really long comment but after I clicked
submit my comment didn’t appear. Grrrr… well I’m
not writing all that over again. Anyhow, just
wanted to say excellent blog!

]]> By: Morning Advantage: Bosses Who Earn Their Pay | iTAX – tax news http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2364 Morning Advantage: Bosses Who Earn Their Pay | iTAX – tax news Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:53:20 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2364 [...] It’s All About Me (Innovation Excellence) Growing the Economy Without Growing Electricity (and Energy) Demand (Conservation Law Foundation) [...] [...] It’s All About Me (Innovation Excellence) Growing the Economy Without Growing Electricity (and Energy) Demand (Conservation Law Foundation) [...]

]]> By: Seth Kaplan http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2361 Seth Kaplan Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:45:05 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2361 Also a good point, we will relatively soon do a companion piece on the impact of prior efficiency efforts on load growth. The basic point is that deep investments in efficiency measures provide a tool to allow economic activity to increase without increasing energy (notably electricity) demand. Also a good point, we will relatively soon do a companion piece on the impact of prior efficiency efforts on load growth. The basic point is that deep investments in efficiency measures provide a tool to allow economic activity to increase without increasing energy (notably electricity) demand.

]]> By: Seth Kaplan http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2360 Seth Kaplan Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:38:52 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2360 An excellent point. That is a much larger question, which we have addressed in the past (and live with constantly as climate advocates) and will come around to again here. The honest answer is that massive efficiency is needed as part of our portfolio of climate solutions - and that by 2050 we must have virtually completely decarbonized our electricity system and dramatically reduced fossil fuel use in all other sectors, at the very least reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80%. An excellent point. That is a much larger question, which we have addressed in the past (and live with constantly as climate advocates) and will come around to again here.

The honest answer is that massive efficiency is needed as part of our portfolio of climate solutions – and that by 2050 we must have virtually completely decarbonized our electricity system and dramatically reduced fossil fuel use in all other sectors, at the very least reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80%.

]]> By: Milt Lauenstein http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2359 Milt Lauenstein Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:36:51 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2359 This would be much more convincing if data were shown about the trend in energy usage up to the present, while these various conservation moves were being made. If energy usage has been increasing while these savings were being made, it is likely to continue. If energy usage has not been growing because of conservation, then those who are forecasting continuing growth are way off base. There are a number of classical growth curves which are uncannily accurate in forecasting future growth based on past trends. They show a period of slow growth, then more rapid growth, and then a leveling off. They could be quite useful in forecasting the growth of energy usage. This would be much more convincing if data were shown about the trend in energy usage up to the present, while these various conservation moves were being made. If energy usage has been increasing while these savings were being made, it is likely to continue. If
energy usage has not been growing because of conservation, then those who are forecasting continuing growth are way off base.

There are a number of classical growth curves which are uncannily accurate in forecasting future growth based on past trends. They show a period of slow growth, then more rapid growth, and then a leveling off. They could be quite useful in forecasting the growth of energy usage.

]]> By: Paul Lauenstein http://www.clf.org/blog/clean-energy-climate-change/everything-you-know-is-wrong-growing-the-economy-without-growing-electricity-and-energy-demand/#comment-2357 Paul Lauenstein Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:43:23 +0000 http://www.clf.org/?p=11618#comment-2357 Dear Mr. Kaplan, This is a very good article, as far as it goes. However, I wish you had included one more scenario which shows what our fossil fuel consumption would have to be in order for future generations to avoid catastrophic climate change, given that atmospheric CO2 is increasing at an accelerating rate much faster than climate scientists predicted just a few years ago. Paul Lauenstein Sharon, MA Dear Mr. Kaplan,

This is a very good article, as far as it goes. However, I wish you had included one more scenario which shows what our fossil fuel consumption would have to be in order for future generations to avoid catastrophic climate change, given that atmospheric CO2 is increasing at an accelerating rate much faster than climate scientists predicted just a few years ago.

Paul Lauenstein
Sharon, MA

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